It’s the Same Ocean
on January 18, 2010
Theme: Babasaheb Ambedkar : Buddhism : caste : dalit : Mohandas Karamchand GandhiKartikey Sehgal
A walk to Dr. Ambedkar’s memorial prompts thoughts on ‘dalitism’.
Did Siddhārtha envisage Indian Buddhism as a sect of people bickering about the validity and significance of a particular famous leader? Or a sect that frowns upon and overtly discourages a boy and a girl from holding hands? If we consider Buddhism as a religion without rites and if then outlaw ‘couples’ then doesn’t it become a religion of rites; that one rule spawning several other rules about public decency and morality leading to a set of punishments?
The Ashoka Pillar at the memorial site
Indeed, Dr. Babasaheb Ambedkar’s memorial (Chaitya Bhoomi) at Dadar near Shivaji Park is a sacred place for dalits and non-dalits alike. But it need not cast such constrained and sorrowful projection onto others. It prohibits couples from watching the 
sea. Makeshift shops of CDs and cassettes announcing the goodness of Babasaheb Ambedkar and condemnation of M K Gandhi are found attended by seemingly poor people who, I learn eventually, are not educated and find subsistence difficult. They don’t know their Buddhism; they rely on the tapes and discs to do the talking for them. I was stopped by one such gentleman and asked to listen to the reasons why Mr. Ambedkar is better than Mr. Gandhi.
Gandhi’s image is found on 100 rupee notes. But our Ambedkar’s photo is found on just a 1 rupee note. why? Because with that 100 rupee note you can buy alcohol. Give Gandhi, get alcohol. Give Gandhi, get alcohol. That is not the case with our Ambedkar. He is with the poor man, that is why he is on the one rupee note unlike Gandhi. (Gandhi encourages alcoholism)
I am aware that Dalits face persecution in rural India* but they are only harming themselves with their dalit, non-dalit policy. The way to absolve their problems is to proclaim that there is no dalit in the Indian philosophy. There never was such a term and it is a societal invention, subject to societal criticism and change. Which educated person will believe you if you say that the dharma propagates dalitism? In the age of internet, libraries and several translations of the vedas, knowledge is accessible and under the purview of every man. So the best (and perhaps the only) way of eliminating your caste based problems is to show that it is not granted by any holy or spiritual Indian book. This, however, is difficult.
Eliminating casteism would mean eliminating caste based politics. How then would you derive votes from the set of people you have categorised as downtrodden? It is convenient to ask for votes to “solve your problems” and “fight injustice”. (This story is not the space to discuss caste based politics and I’ll stop here)
So we have a set of people at a sacred spot, not educated, seemingly unaware of Buddhism, eating minimal food, selling tapes and cassettes that deride a leader vis-a-vis their favourite leader and who are not different from any other common poor man.
And they deride brahminism and priests but indulge in pinda daan, which they are aware is done for the atman of the deceased souls in the presence of a priest (favourably). “The only problem…”, as the seller who plays the anti-Gandhi tones tells me, “The only problem is that it should not be done here because it makes the place dirty”.
Then we shake hands and I leave.
Post Pinda daan
Only the bird is solitary
The beach adjoining the memorial site. Couples be wary.
* Fighting over Ambedkar and Gandhi. Believing that Rig Veda sanctions birth based division of castes. The ‘high castes’ believe in the uselessness of dalits and untouchables who in turn also believe in the system and blame it for their misery. The leaders, Buddhists and Hindus, don’t rectify them probably for the fear of losing the vote-bank.
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Comments
Brilliant article, Kartikey!
You’ve put forth a topic that “educated” people rarely talk about.
And on the sentence, “Believing that Rig Veda sanctions birth based division of castes.” As far as my knowledge goes, Ambedkar did believe that the very nature of Hinduism was such that it invoked casteism and exploitation of the “lower castes”.
Gandhi on the other hand believed that Hinduism was in need and capable of reform that could end casteism.
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an idea will prevail if it is given reasons to prevail; it may not be the truth. the society as a collective pushes forth the idea. in this case the idea is not sanctioned by the philosophy; it rests on mis-education brought about by vested interests with a view to disrupt progress.
~Megha~
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I hope good sense prevails on some of us
.-= B K CHOWLA´s last [story] ..COINCIDENCES——IS IT? =-.
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I would like to share some thoughts on this-
Caste is innate to the way people think- at least with people above forty, I don’t know about the younger ones.
May be anti-brahminism comes with the territory- it would be fine if we can all forget history and move forward, but people in general have a tendency to pay back their oppressors, and not forgetting the past is a sure way of doing that.
And another thing is, if you do away with caste and have equality- then where is justice if someone who has exploited you for two thousand years is as pure and good as you? There is no justice without punishment.
I am pained at the attack on Gandhiji, though. It seems that Ambedkar needs a idol to break so they chose Gandhiji. That way, Ambedkar would be greater than Gandhiji, possibly.
Let’s hope in about twenty, thirty years time this division becomes meaningless.
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you are referring to abuse of casteism which is different from casteism. although we’ve been made to believe that they are the same.
if a brahmin claims and acts on birth-based superiority then he may be punished and justice be provided to the ‘oppressed’. in the past it was not the ‘religion’ at fault but the society that manipulated it. although we’ve been made to believe otherwise (still taught in schools).
how do you get the thousand year period; i thought new search shows it to be lesser and not prevalent everywhere. we know now that ancient india was not abusing casteism. and that at least till 500 A.D the situation was normal (contested). i am leaving some links i found on the internet.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caste_system_in_India (the varied opinions)
http://www.hindunet.com/forum/printthread.php?Board=caste&main=83182&type=post
http://www.ifih.org/TheMythofCasteTyranny.htm
.-= Kartikey´s last [story] ..It’s the Same Ocean =-.
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I got the two thousand years idea only from what is spoken about here- it is 2010, right? Then it is two thousand years- ever since history began.
I think we need to get over casteism and talk about inequalities- and the idea of justice. The full frontal focus on casteism, whether it is good or bad, it was not as bad and so on, and the fixation with the idea of victims and oppressors, is not going to do away with caste. In fact, it will only lead to a retrenchment of position along the lines of caste.
It is important to recognise that talk of “social justice” in place of “justice” means that something that can be seen as unjust, can be justified on the grounds of social justice. This, in my thinking, is grounded in the need to redress past injustice, much more than the need to establish a just society.
Whether this is good or bad is another question, but it is important that we recognise that there is an element of revenge in the public discourse of caste. Unless we identify it, we won’t understand each other.
But this, idea of revenge may be seen as unfair by the victims of social justice- but then, we put people in prison even when we know that they are not going to change from their experience. Justice is not in the business of saving individual souls.
May be you could find this review of Amartya Sen’s idea of justice a bit interesting:
“Might our concept of justice arise when society’s normal moral inertia, the tendency to accept traditions and status quo ethical procedures without challenge, is itself challenged?
“Sen inclines to that view. He begins An Idea of Justice by quoting Pip in Charles Dickens’s Great Expectations: “In the little world in which children have their existence, there is nothing so finely perceived and finely felt, as injustice.” Sen adds, “The identification of redressable injustice is not only what animates us to think about justice and injustice, it is also central … to the theory of justice.“”
http://chronicle.com/article/Amartya-Sen-Shakes-Up-Justice/48332
Sen is not an apologist of caste, or social justice as it is practiced here. He is a true realist, and wants us to return to the fundamentals of Indian traditional jurisprudence- “…niti (strict organizational and behavioral rules of justice) and nyaya (the larger picture of how such rules affect ordinary lives)”.
Hope you will reflect upon all this and share your insights into this- as for me, I am tired of talking about it, because it seems there is an unbridgeable gulf that separates individuals from seeing the others’ viewpoint. In my mind, it is to do with the fact that we blur over the desire for redress of past injustices.
Unless we find some way to do this, the issue of caste won’t go away- even the intellectually open won’t bridge the gulf, no matter how strong the arguments are.
Regards,
baskar
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your idea of social and ‘necessary’ justice is interesting and workable. some thoughts i am mailing to you before posting them here.
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As you probably know, my pc is not doing well. So, I am not able to respond as well as I want to.
Looking forward to read more on this.
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received your mail
a spoiled pc is a snoring elephant; nothing gets through its skin
.-= Kartikey´s last [story] ..Caste of Relations-2 =-.
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